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	<title>Comments on: An interfaith Springer moment</title>
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	<link>http://www.americanfreethought.com/wordpress/2009/08/16/an-interfaith-springer-moment/</link>
	<description>Question.  Think.  Decide.</description>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.americanfreethought.com/wordpress/2009/08/16/an-interfaith-springer-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-5936</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 16:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.americanfreethought.com/wordpress/?p=1220#comment-5936</guid>
		<description>I know this is late in coming, but if Blake Lorenz wanted to help the child, he could have contacted authorites in Ohio and taken legal steps to help her out.  He didn&#039;t.  He lied to his church.  He took money from his church (not his own personal account) to pay to get this child across state lines.  Regardless of what misconceptions you are trying to give people (mentioning honor killings to get readers upset about it then backing off and making your statement a bit more clear when presented with facts).  Lorenz knew what he was doing was illegal, immoral, and wrong.  He did it anyway.  Don&#039;t forget, folks, the BTK killer was an upstanding member of the church for 30 years.  ANY ADULT MALE WHO LURES A CHILD AWAY FROM HER HOME VIA THE INTERNET is suspect of being MORE than who he claims to be.  

A responsible, honest man would have immediantly contacted child protective services in Ohio.  They have to respond to every call, no matter what.  And they don&#039;t exactly annouce their arrival.  So had an unexpected visit from Children&#039;s Services had turned up any evidence of future violence, the girl would have been safe and Lorenz a hero for helping.  But that is not what he did.  He lured a child via the internet to cross state lines...and helped her get there.  Paid for her to get there.  

Its amazing how Lorenz is seen as a Good Guy because he has the tag &quot;Christian&quot; and Bary&#039;s father as a bad guy because he has the tag &quot;Muslim&quot;.  People are more ready to believe that the dad is evil because of his faith even though there is no evidence he is than that the Pastor is evil - because there is all kinds of evidence pointing to him that he is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this is late in coming, but if Blake Lorenz wanted to help the child, he could have contacted authorites in Ohio and taken legal steps to help her out.  He didn&#8217;t.  He lied to his church.  He took money from his church (not his own personal account) to pay to get this child across state lines.  Regardless of what misconceptions you are trying to give people (mentioning honor killings to get readers upset about it then backing off and making your statement a bit more clear when presented with facts).  Lorenz knew what he was doing was illegal, immoral, and wrong.  He did it anyway.  Don&#8217;t forget, folks, the BTK killer was an upstanding member of the church for 30 years.  ANY ADULT MALE WHO LURES A CHILD AWAY FROM HER HOME VIA THE INTERNET is suspect of being MORE than who he claims to be.  </p>
<p>A responsible, honest man would have immediantly contacted child protective services in Ohio.  They have to respond to every call, no matter what.  And they don&#8217;t exactly annouce their arrival.  So had an unexpected visit from Children&#8217;s Services had turned up any evidence of future violence, the girl would have been safe and Lorenz a hero for helping.  But that is not what he did.  He lured a child via the internet to cross state lines&#8230;and helped her get there.  Paid for her to get there.  </p>
<p>Its amazing how Lorenz is seen as a Good Guy because he has the tag &#8220;Christian&#8221; and Bary&#8217;s father as a bad guy because he has the tag &#8220;Muslim&#8221;.  People are more ready to believe that the dad is evil because of his faith even though there is no evidence he is than that the Pastor is evil &#8211; because there is all kinds of evidence pointing to him that he is.</p>
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		<title>By: bill</title>
		<link>http://www.americanfreethought.com/wordpress/2009/08/16/an-interfaith-springer-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-4446</link>
		<dc:creator>bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.americanfreethought.com/wordpress/?p=1220#comment-4446</guid>
		<description>I get the idea this is a frying pan into the fire moment.  Not sure the Noor Islamic Center in Ohio is much better than the Global Revolution Church.  I imagine the psychology of the 17 year old might very well seek out some sort of radical faith rather than something moderate.  It&#039;s all rather sad and unfortunate.  I hope she ends up with a &#039;radical&#039; agnostic foster family.:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get the idea this is a frying pan into the fire moment.  Not sure the Noor Islamic Center in Ohio is much better than the Global Revolution Church.  I imagine the psychology of the 17 year old might very well seek out some sort of radical faith rather than something moderate.  It&#8217;s all rather sad and unfortunate.  I hope she ends up with a &#8216;radical&#8217; agnostic foster family.:)</p>
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		<title>By: The latest on Rifqa Bary &#171; American Freethought</title>
		<link>http://www.americanfreethought.com/wordpress/2009/08/16/an-interfaith-springer-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-4396</link>
		<dc:creator>The latest on Rifqa Bary &#171; American Freethought</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.americanfreethought.com/wordpress/?p=1220#comment-4396</guid>
		<description>[...] I reported a few days ago (see &#8220;An interfaith Springer moment&#8220;), Rifqa Bary is a 17-year-old, Sri Lanka-born girl from Ohio who converted from Islam to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I reported a few days ago (see &#8220;An interfaith Springer moment&#8220;), Rifqa Bary is a 17-year-old, Sri Lanka-born girl from Ohio who converted from Islam to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John C. Snider</title>
		<link>http://www.americanfreethought.com/wordpress/2009/08/16/an-interfaith-springer-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-4379</link>
		<dc:creator>John C. Snider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.americanfreethought.com/wordpress/?p=1220#comment-4379</guid>
		<description>Hey NH,

Your points are well taken.  I certainly did not mean to say that ALL Muslim men will engage in honor killings against errant females in their families. And as you point out, honor killings by Muslims are comparatively rare in the US, but not unheard of.  In Atlanta there have been at least two such murders in recent years, and let&#039;s not forget the murder in Buffalo earlier this year committed by Mo Hassan (who ran a TV station devoted to perpetuating a moderate image of Islam, no less!).  Anyway, I am only pointing that that these are factors--along with the tendency of abusive fathers to talk their way out of things with the police--are certainly a consideration.

I appreciate your insights into runaways, and I hope you are correct that the Barys have a peaceful and loving reconciliation.

Thanks!
John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey NH,</p>
<p>Your points are well taken.  I certainly did not mean to say that ALL Muslim men will engage in honor killings against errant females in their families. And as you point out, honor killings by Muslims are comparatively rare in the US, but not unheard of.  In Atlanta there have been at least two such murders in recent years, and let&#8217;s not forget the murder in Buffalo earlier this year committed by Mo Hassan (who ran a TV station devoted to perpetuating a moderate image of Islam, no less!).  Anyway, I am only pointing that that these are factors&#8211;along with the tendency of abusive fathers to talk their way out of things with the police&#8211;are certainly a consideration.</p>
<p>I appreciate your insights into runaways, and I hope you are correct that the Barys have a peaceful and loving reconciliation.</p>
<p>Thanks!<br />
John</p>
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		<title>By: NH Baritone</title>
		<link>http://www.americanfreethought.com/wordpress/2009/08/16/an-interfaith-springer-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-4378</link>
		<dc:creator>NH Baritone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.americanfreethought.com/wordpress/?p=1220#comment-4378</guid>
		<description>1. Honor killings are almost all limited to certain countries. Linking all Muslim men to the acts perpetrated by only certain populations, you&#039;re committing a big of prejudice. Such killings are rare in the USA, in spite of having 8 million Muslims living within our borders. Although worldwide there are about 5000 honor killings annually (a horrible figure), they are almost all perpetrated in countries of the middle east and when in the west, by immigrants from those countries. Sri Lanka is not included in the list put forward by the UN where these killings are commonplace. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#Locations)

2. I used to work at a runaway shelter. Children leave home for lots of different reasons, but they often put forward a reason that will garner them the most sympathy. Almost all can be reconciled with their families if the goal is to find a way to do so. By taking her religious claims as primary (instead of investigating other family conflicts as possible sources of conflict), the press is turning a family problem into a religious one, in the same way that they turned the Terri Schiavo case from a family issue to a religious one. (Although if Rev. Lorenz encouraged her to come to live with him, 

3. 17-year-olds in most states are still minors. They cannot sign contracts and parents are still responsible for caring for them. I don&#039;t know the laws in Ohio or Florida, but since Florida has taken her into temporary state custody, they clearly do not have an automatic emancipation law for 17-year-olds.

I expect that there will be a quiet reconciliation, if the church will keep the press out of the lives of this family. And John, try not to give atheists a bad name by publicly painting Islam with such a broad brush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. Honor killings are almost all limited to certain countries. Linking all Muslim men to the acts perpetrated by only certain populations, you&#8217;re committing a big of prejudice. Such killings are rare in the USA, in spite of having 8 million Muslims living within our borders. Although worldwide there are about 5000 honor killings annually (a horrible figure), they are almost all perpetrated in countries of the middle east and when in the west, by immigrants from those countries. Sri Lanka is not included in the list put forward by the UN where these killings are commonplace. (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#Locations" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#Locations</a>)</p>
<p>2. I used to work at a runaway shelter. Children leave home for lots of different reasons, but they often put forward a reason that will garner them the most sympathy. Almost all can be reconciled with their families if the goal is to find a way to do so. By taking her religious claims as primary (instead of investigating other family conflicts as possible sources of conflict), the press is turning a family problem into a religious one, in the same way that they turned the Terri Schiavo case from a family issue to a religious one. (Although if Rev. Lorenz encouraged her to come to live with him, </p>
<p>3. 17-year-olds in most states are still minors. They cannot sign contracts and parents are still responsible for caring for them. I don&#8217;t know the laws in Ohio or Florida, but since Florida has taken her into temporary state custody, they clearly do not have an automatic emancipation law for 17-year-olds.</p>
<p>I expect that there will be a quiet reconciliation, if the church will keep the press out of the lives of this family. And John, try not to give atheists a bad name by publicly painting Islam with such a broad brush.</p>
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